Pfff that is typical Western dev consultant/diplo discourse but bears no relevance to the reality in Turkestan/Central Asia.

“First and foremost Prostitution, Drug addicts, and Homosexual behavior are not related except for people who group these different activities as things they do not like or don’t approve of.”

Well as a matter of fact they do relate in the sense that their spread or their increase in numbers are the outcome of social degeneration and a society’s decadence.

“Prostitution by both men and women is primarily done for financial reasons, in any country not just UZ. The lack of income generating activities dictates the value of such services as simple as providing a supply – demand analysis.”

Like Uzbek f/t Valley I also met very poor women (war widows in TJ for instance) who would rather kill themselves than to go into prostitution.

So I strongly disagree as well for the same reasons as Uzbek f/t Valley and those I already mentioned before: it’s a much a social and mental degeneration, both from the supply and demand side:

–granted, *part* of these women are poor sods to whom life has not been kind to say the least but many others are the “easy money easy glamour” kind or/and plain idiots.

–there is also demand, which is primarily rooted in a loser/prole definition of post-Soviet “manhood” that is centered around, first, heavy drinking and second, bragging with prostitutes.

During the ’90s, prostitution (both supply and demand) has been actively promoted (esp. in KG but other places too) as a secular virtue in the name of ‘friidum’ by both the establishment and certain Western(-funded) organisations to destroy the social tissue and better oppress the people (as one writer put it: ‘wine, song and dance as an antidote to dissent’).

First and foremost Prostitution, Drug addicts, and Homosexual behavior are not related except for people who group these different activities as things they do not like or don’t approve of. If Mansurhon is serious about developing a correlation between poverty and prostitution he should not group these groups together as this discredits himself / herself.

Drug addition is caused by a lack of information, social support and ignoring other social issues. A reflection of other social problems which UZ has, which is not linked to poverty.

Homosexuality is not linked to poverty or to sodomy. Heterosexual couples also widely practice sodomy at about the same rate as homosexual partners. This lack of information is what organizations in KG are free to create understanding about; not through advocating for this sexual practice but for providing understanding of and being open about these issues.

Prostitution by both men and women is primarily done for financial reasons, in any country not just UZ. The lack of income generating activities dictates the value of such services as simple as providing a supply – demand analysis. The level of prostitution is not dependant on ones education in fact you can argue the better-educated person is likely more progressive in his/her thinking and thus participates in prostitution. There is and always will be prostitution in both Islamic and non-Islamic countries, irregardless of how many wife’s one can take. Society dictates how much the act is pushed in the closet and defined different but the fact is its still the same activity with the same purpose. In Europe experiments of making prostitution legal and illegal have been met with ills on both sides. Yet controlling and protecting the people both customer and provider takes precedence and the best way to do this is to make it legal.

Sadly, in Uzbekistan’s current state, prostitution will never be legal and people will continue to be abused and hurt. The police profit from prostitution, the providers and pimps benefit from the illegality and the community would rather ignore the issues rather then face them. No one wants it to be legal and thus it will always be a problem.

The same arguments can be given for the other ills of Uzbekistan and until this changes trying to “clean up” something will have no effect. However, better understanding by people who present issues would help. ☺

That is well possible. Who cares? What we have in common, my friend, is an strong antipathy (be it one from different perpectives) towards the munafiq puppet monarchies in Saudi Arabia and other Gulf baronies. They are not ‘Islam’ (even if the Saudis hold Mecca and Medina which is a disgrace) and ‘the Islamic world’ is not limited to them (or to the Taliban for that matter).

“but it is certainly possible to reduce it. Both moral and economic aspects are important in reducing prostitution.”

See? Another thing we agree on. It is as much a matter of a mentality (e.g. the obsession among some with easy money ‘n glamour) than of poverty. That is why I don’t buy into the standard tearjerker stories about “poor naive girls who are lured into prostitution (abroad) with false promises and blablabla”.

BTW, ‘marry 50 women’?!

“While men are allowed to marry up to *four* wives, they are also commanded to meet the preconditions of being able to financially support them. They must also deal with each wife justly and fairly with respect to marital and economic obligations. Allah says in the Qur’an (translation),

‘If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.[4:3]’

Moreover, women are allowed to reject any marriage proposal made to her by prospective suitors, thus if she does not feel she can abide by the rules of the Qur’an and Sunnah if she marries a certain person, she can reject his proposal. While it is irrelevant to Islam, it is worthwhile to note that both Judaism and Christianity allow polygamy. The idea is not as foreign to the non-Muslims as is often claimed.”

www.islamicweb.com

Formerly living in Farg’ona:

“As for Western-funded NGOs “promoting” homosexuality in Kyrgystan - are you crazy?”

Pfrrr, if it makes you feel comfortable: yes. (every visionary is/has been called crazy at one time).

“Show me an NGO with “everyone should be gay” in their mission statement.”

HA! Are you so naive to think that they will put that in their mission statements?!

It’s sneakier than that. It’s like these Christian sects: few will say that they want to convert all Kyr or Central Asians to their Protestant slave ideology even if that is their ultimate aim. Instead they smoothly pack it into English and computer classes, “art cafés”, “women’s groups” and other “inter-faith dialogue forums”. Or pressure people to convert of they want jobs at the US base or certain foreign companies.

“Besides the fact that without an outside influence you would still have poor women with no other way of making money, you have plenty of Uzbek men who enjoy these things.”

Yes that is true. The fault of the (Western) expats lays herein, that they have encouraged mass prostitution by conspiciously giving the bad example with some individuals being actively involved in organising the activity (I mean, come on, let’s be serious… ). How do you want people to respect them? Moreover, their behavior has seriously stained the reputation of the bona fide/clean mixed couples/families as well.

As for Western-funded NGOs “promoting” homosexuality in Kyrgystan - are you crazy? Show me an NGO with “everyone should be gay” in their mission statement.