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	<title>Comments on: The OSCE and Conspiracy Theory</title>
	<link>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/</link>
	<description>Open discussion about current issues in Uzbekistan</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ataman Rakin</title>
		<link>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>Ataman Rakin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 16:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-477</guid>
		<description>Tajik Boy: "I heard in the early years of independence many so-called “Uzbek Jewish” who came to the US are actually Uzbeks, who paid the authorities to re-register themselves as Jews so they could emmigrate."

Likely. Shto skazat'? Gol' na vydumki xitra! :) Maybe we're getting off-topic but if you're interested and read German, Der Spiegel has a story this week about a gang in Moldova, led by a police officer, that sells 'Jewish identities' to local Russians and Moldovans who want to emigrate to Israël and the EU: http://service.spiegel.de/digas/servlet/epaper?Q=SP&#38;JG=2006&#38;AG=14&#38;SE=122

As for Laurence: "Note the threat to Jews and Koreans in Ataman Rakin’s post. He’s not alone. Anyone who knows what Hizb-ut-Tahrir says in its leaflets, etc. "

I don't know what your point is but if my reply is seen as an anti-Jewish/Korean threat by you and enough to have me branded 'Hizb-ut-Tahrir' (how original!), fine.   

From my side, I base my hypothesis on historical precdents where certain minorities were (perceived as being) in cahoots with/privileged by upopular regimes e.g. the Bahai in Pahlavi Iran, the Chinese in Suharto's Indonesia; etc.  Partly, popular antipathy againt minorities are fueled by difference in wealth and living standards (cf. the Indonesian Chinese); but in other cases, they *were* compromised with the regime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tajik Boy: &#8220;I heard in the early years of independence many so-called “Uzbek Jewish” who came to the US are actually Uzbeks, who paid the authorities to re-register themselves as Jews so they could emmigrate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Likely. Shto skazat&#8217;? Gol&#8217; na vydumki xitra! <img src='http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Maybe we&#8217;re getting off-topic but if you&#8217;re interested and read German, Der Spiegel has a story this week about a gang in Moldova, led by a police officer, that sells &#8216;Jewish identities&#8217; to local Russians and Moldovans who want to emigrate to Israël and the EU: <a href="http://service.spiegel.de/digas/servlet/epaper?Q=SP&amp;JG=2006&amp;AG=14&amp;SE=122" rel="nofollow">http://service.spiegel.de/digas/servlet/epaper?Q=SP&amp;JG=2006&amp;AG=14&amp;SE=122</a></p>
<p>As for Laurence: &#8220;Note the threat to Jews and Koreans in Ataman Rakin’s post. He’s not alone. Anyone who knows what Hizb-ut-Tahrir says in its leaflets, etc. &#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what your point is but if my reply is seen as an anti-Jewish/Korean threat by you and enough to have me branded &#8216;Hizb-ut-Tahrir&#8217; (how original!), fine.   </p>
<p>From my side, I base my hypothesis on historical precdents where certain minorities were (perceived as being) in cahoots with/privileged by upopular regimes e.g. the Bahai in Pahlavi Iran, the Chinese in Suharto&#8217;s Indonesia; etc.  Partly, popular antipathy againt minorities are fueled by difference in wealth and living standards (cf. the Indonesian Chinese); but in other cases, they *were* compromised with the regime.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 01:28:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-471</guid>
		<description>David,
You are right in that I probably should have made clear that it isn't the author making these allegations, just reporting that they are widely perceived, which as Ataman points out, is the more significant and interesting part of the story.

"The real question is perhaps why the OSCE invited a government editor to a meeting with NGOs"
- Unless you have information that I don't (which may well be the case), it seems most likely to me at least that the OSCE didn't invite the government editor; the Uzbek government did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />
You are right in that I probably should have made clear that it isn&#8217;t the author making these allegations, just reporting that they are widely perceived, which as Ataman points out, is the more significant and interesting part of the story.</p>
<p>&#8220;The real question is perhaps why the OSCE invited a government editor to a meeting with NGOs&#8221;<br />
- Unless you have information that I don&#8217;t (which may well be the case), it seems most likely to me at least that the OSCE didn&#8217;t invite the government editor; the Uzbek government did.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence</title>
		<link>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-469</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 22:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-469</guid>
		<description>Note the threat to Jews and Koreans in Ataman Rakin's post.  He's not alone.

 Anyone who knows what Hizb-ut-Tahrir says in its leaflets, or who has talked to people in the country, knows that there is a real threat to minorities (Jews, Koreans, Armenians, Russians et al.) in Uzbekistan from extremist groups. Anti-semitic stereotypes are widespread. Some of my students believed America was controlled by Jews, even that Yale University was a Jewish school (there is some Hebrew lettering in the logo). So, it is not surprising to read that the Uzbek Jewish community might keep track of threats, as they do in the US, England, France, Russia, and elsewhere--for their own protection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note the threat to Jews and Koreans in Ataman Rakin&#8217;s post.  He&#8217;s not alone.</p>
<p> Anyone who knows what Hizb-ut-Tahrir says in its leaflets, or who has talked to people in the country, knows that there is a real threat to minorities (Jews, Koreans, Armenians, Russians et al.) in Uzbekistan from extremist groups. Anti-semitic stereotypes are widespread. Some of my students believed America was controlled by Jews, even that Yale University was a Jewish school (there is some Hebrew lettering in the logo). So, it is not surprising to read that the Uzbek Jewish community might keep track of threats, as they do in the US, England, France, Russia, and elsewhere&#8211;for their own protection.</p>
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		<title>By: Tajik boy</title>
		<link>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>Tajik boy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 18:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-467</guid>
		<description>"The vast majority left for social-economic reasons and the opportunity to start new life in Israël or the West (the US in particular)." I can't agree with you more. I heard in the early years of independence many so-called "Uzbek Jewish" who came to the US are actually Uzbeks, who paid the authorities to re-register themselves as Jews so they could emmigrate. Doesn't at all look like prepression and nationalism. What happens to Tajiks and Uzbeks in Russia, that is nationalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The vast majority left for social-economic reasons and the opportunity to start new life in Israël or the West (the US in particular).&#8221; I can&#8217;t agree with you more. I heard in the early years of independence many so-called &#8220;Uzbek Jewish&#8221; who came to the US are actually Uzbeks, who paid the authorities to re-register themselves as Jews so they could emmigrate. Doesn&#8217;t at all look like prepression and nationalism. What happens to Tajiks and Uzbeks in Russia, that is nationalism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ataman Rakin</title>
		<link>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-462</link>
		<dc:creator>Ataman Rakin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-462</guid>
		<description>According to official 1989 stats, there uses to be about 65,000 Russian Ashkenazi Jews and some 25,000 Persian Bukharan Jews the Uzbek SSR. According to my sources, today there are about 10,000 left (both groups combined). 

That tens of thousands of Jews left Uzbekistan since independence because of “rising nationalism and Islamic fundamentalism” is bollocks; the vast majority left for social-economic reasons and the opportunity to start new life in Israël or the West (the US in particular).

This said, I have also the impression that some Jewish community leaders excel in associating themselves with the regime. That is party because most of these so-called ‘national-cultural centres’, to where official community leaders mostly belong, are sycophantic GONGO structures (not only in Uzbekistan BTW); it’s probably also a matter of self-protection/self-censorship; and another explanation is that many Uzbekistani Jews buy into the myth that the present regime is the best guarantee against an Islamist takeover.

There’s also the controversial and shady issue of Israël’s support to the anti-Islamic regime in Uzbekistan. 

To what extent all that is based on facts or not, is actually not the most important. To what extent it is *perceived* as such by a substantial number of people, is. It is because on the mid- or long term it can have repercussions on the security of the remaining Jews in Uzbekistan. 

See, when the rogue regime in Tashkent collapses -- as it sooner or later will -- there will, at best, be a number of weeks of street violence and score settling. And part of it may be directed against ethnic minorities who are seen as minions of the regime, i.e. Jews and ethnic Koreans in particular.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to official 1989 stats, there uses to be about 65,000 Russian Ashkenazi Jews and some 25,000 Persian Bukharan Jews the Uzbek SSR. According to my sources, today there are about 10,000 left (both groups combined). </p>
<p>That tens of thousands of Jews left Uzbekistan since independence because of “rising nationalism and Islamic fundamentalism” is bollocks; the vast majority left for social-economic reasons and the opportunity to start new life in Israël or the West (the US in particular).</p>
<p>This said, I have also the impression that some Jewish community leaders excel in associating themselves with the regime. That is party because most of these so-called ‘national-cultural centres’, to where official community leaders mostly belong, are sycophantic GONGO structures (not only in Uzbekistan BTW); it’s probably also a matter of self-protection/self-censorship; and another explanation is that many Uzbekistani Jews buy into the myth that the present regime is the best guarantee against an Islamist takeover.</p>
<p>There’s also the controversial and shady issue of Israël’s support to the anti-Islamic regime in Uzbekistan. </p>
<p>To what extent all that is based on facts or not, is actually not the most important. To what extent it is *perceived* as such by a substantial number of people, is. It is because on the mid- or long term it can have repercussions on the security of the remaining Jews in Uzbekistan. </p>
<p>See, when the rogue regime in Tashkent collapses &#8212; as it sooner or later will &#8212; there will, at best, be a number of weeks of street violence and score settling. And part of it may be directed against ethnic minorities who are seen as minions of the regime, i.e. Jews and ethnic Koreans in particular.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 12:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://uzbekistan.neweurasia.net/2006/04/07/the-osce-and-conspiracy-theory/#comment-460</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure that's quite a fair summary of the article. Strange indeed, but its Mikhailov who allegedly claims that he receives information as head of the local Jewish organisation, and therefore knows that these people were terrorists. The author merely points out that its unlikely that he does have this information, and that he was probably at the meeting to put forward the govt line on Andijan. I'm not sure that it 'implicates all Uzbek Jews of being in league with the Uzbek regime', although you might think that if you read the pronouncements of Bukharan Jewish leaders, whose sycophancy is unparalleled. The real question is perhaps why the OSCE invited a government editor to a meeting with NGOs, and why De Gucht did not repeat calls for an independent investigation of the Andijan events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s quite a fair summary of the article. Strange indeed, but its Mikhailov who allegedly claims that he receives information as head of the local Jewish organisation, and therefore knows that these people were terrorists. The author merely points out that its unlikely that he does have this information, and that he was probably at the meeting to put forward the govt line on Andijan. I&#8217;m not sure that it &#8216;implicates all Uzbek Jews of being in league with the Uzbek regime&#8217;, although you might think that if you read the pronouncements of Bukharan Jewish leaders, whose sycophancy is unparalleled. The real question is perhaps why the OSCE invited a government editor to a meeting with NGOs, and why De Gucht did not repeat calls for an independent investigation of the Andijan events.</p>
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